Hrytsak does not like publicity. A year since taking office — the editors LIGA.net sought this interview. The head of the SBU didn't want to give it to anyone, only once agreeing to a 30-minute conversation on channel 5. Our interview in total lasted more than four hours.
The first time I saw Gritsak in the area of ATO in the most difficult moments of the Russian-Ukrainian war, when he served as first Deputy head of the SBU — head of the Antiterrorist center and was in charge of the special operation of ATO forces in the combat zone. A personal meeting took place in April 2016 in Kramatorsk on the frontal base of one of the elite combat units of the SBU. Over a glass of tea and a plate of soup, much has been said: remembering fallen, hot summer of 2014, they drank for victory. By evening contact was established: the head of the SBU has promised that in the near future will give an interview.
Two months later, hrycak allocated for interview, one hour. After a conversation in his plans was a working trip to the South of the Ukraine. When the time allotted for the interview had expired — the conversation was just beginning."There's no other way — we'll have to go with you." "I said. The head of Service agreed. In an hour the machine head of the SBU went from Kiev with one unusual passenger. A few days within the system is forced to reconsider the views on the work of intelligence agencies. About a lot of things heard and seen you can't tell, for obvious reasons. The smart reader will see between the published lines.
"a Key role was played by the Russian advisers"
— The biggest success — we were able to preserve the integrity of our country after the annexation of Crimea, blocked by Russian troops in the ATO area and not allowed to spread terrorism to other regions of Ukraine. It is about war.
Reform. We have created a security Service able to respond adequately to the challenges. Our main challenge is Russia, not the terrorists of DNR/LNR. We are at war with Russia. It manages the so-called "cases" of terrorists, all processes in the occupied territories.
Consolidation. At this stage, we help to unite the political elites in the name of the state. This is important because Russia's goal is to divide our society.
We have prevented many terrorist attacks, including abroad, in the European Union — in France. It was an operation that lasted more than six months, were involved in a lot of effort. Such an operation could be proud of any intelligence Agency in the world. We began to perceive powerful intelligence Agency on the planet, and within the top five. We are perceived as a partner, we share our experience gained in the course of waging a hybrid war. In fact, we are the first in the modern world faced with this kind of war.So all we could do, enjoys great interest from our colleagues in the West.
— The loss. Unfortunately, during my work, one officer was killed, December 9, 2015. Several soldiers were injured. This is my problem. I find it hard to look into the eyes of relatives. Yesterday we had Irina, the wife of the deceased Andrei Kuzmenko. She comes to us. We're her family. We take patronage over the children of the victims that they felt care and felt abandoned and unwanted. This is important.
Unfortunately, we could not be fully purified. We took a course on the reformation, sent to the Council a draft reform of the Service. But while it is what it is. When I came, gathered the leadership team and simply said: dear friends, the time that we must choose — we change, that is, work honestly, or if you are not ready, better go. I have no obligation to you, except to give you the option to operate at full capacity.
Briefly, our project of reforming the security service believes that the Service model will be rebuilt following the example of advanced intelligence in the world. We took a course on European and Euro-Atlantic integration, and therefore the functionality of our security services should be similar to that of our colleagues. We are not alone in this work — we help our affiliates. But we reformiruetsya on the March, with each day have to prove its effectiveness.
I'm sorry that the beginning has not taken more drastic changes in the organization and building of the SBU. I'm not talking about frames. Speech, mainly, on the organization of work, for example, in the part of analysts.
At that time the most important thing was to increase the capacity of Services in the area of the ATO. As a result, 20 people at the beginning of the summer of 2014 years we have increased the number of investigators to 800 officers. That you understand, the higher management in the private region is about 150 operatives. Thus, rotation method, we supplemented the strength of our offices in Donetsk and Lugansk regions.
I can't tell you all the details of the operation. But some things can not tell to the detriment of the investigation.
On the territory of Ukraine the foreigner appears, manifesting an increased interest in the armed forces, is sent into the zone ATO, talks with representatives of the Ukrainian army and volunteer battalions. However, he offers to provide humanitarian aid, ammunition, equipment and so on. To build relationships. And a little later starts to question, is it possible in Ukraine to buy weapons. These questions he asked not one person but many. Division of military counterintelligence of SBU in the area of the ATO, by the way, the reinforced us four times, received information about this foreigner.
We started to look at this person closer. It was at the end of 2015. Began to work it. During a casual conversation he told me how he was dissatisfied with the activities of the French government, migration policy, it does, sharply criticized what happened in France. However, he continued to try to acquire weapons. In the framework of the Ukrainian legislation, we began an operational combination in which the opportunity provided. If a person truly wants to buy a gun, was determined to have problems in France — he will still buy.The more we became aware of his failed attempt to buy weapons in Syria.
He said that he operates an underground organization of right-wing, which is planning a series of terrorist attacks. When he gave up the Kalashnikov, it became clear that he was not the first time holding a weapon in the hands of the specialist sees it, even on how to lay your finger along the box. It turned out that he is very well versed in explosives and knows how to deal with it, a good shot. He is very well-evaded surveillance using the classic techniques of the intelligence services.That is, it all taught this. Later we found out that he did not act alone.In Ukraine came a few French contacts with whom we recorded.
— Work with them our French colleagues — the information we gave. About the seriousness of this man and his group says his willingness to leave a few thousand euros of collateral in order to buy weapons in Ukraine. "If we don't have you, then somewhere in another place will buy", — he said.
The weapon he wanted until may 2016. In the process of working with him, we know what objects he and his organization plan to blow up France. Among other things it was a local tax, the synagogue and the mosque.
"You're absolutely right. Again came another citizen with a new batch of money to purchase weapons. We documented every step. They did it very secretly and on the patterns of intelligence. When we introduced French colleagues our jobs for their citizens in Ukraine, they were extremely surprised by the quality of the operation.
A citizen of France, we were detained at the checkpoint Yagodin may 21, 2016. When it was 125 kg of TNT, 100 blasting caps, five Kalashnikovs, more than five thousand rounds, two anti-tank RPG launchers and 18 shots to them, 20 balaclavas and other things. Unfortunately, only the evening of 7 June we asked the French side to join the case.
We saw these comments from France, they say, something we do not passed... However, I will emphasize that there is a procedure, and official documents from the French party were received just last night (this part of the interview was recorded on June 8, — ed.). Don't want these words to be perceived as criticizing our French colleagues. In General, we productively cooperate with them, but, on the other hand, if we from partner intelligence agencies received information that the citizen of Ukraine trying to acquire explosives for terror attacks in our country, our staff would have been sent to this country on the next flight.
— I'm very cautious comments on the exchange. In 2014 we had a number of exchanges began with Yury Tandit. During this time, I never comment for this reason. This does not mean that I have nothing to say — when you see beat-up guys with cut on the backs of Trident, or, as Rahman, crushed with pliers joints on the fingers — nothing to comment here.
As for Nadia Savchenko — is a collective work. Anyone on the other side of the border, I personally had no contact. Yes, we have been working on organization of this process. We passed people simultaneously, because there was a threat of deception: we will prepare everything, and we are deceived. But the operation was successful. Thank God. And all the rest doesn't matter.
— You can have different attitudes to people who are engaged in exchanges. But in the beginning I said to myself and the team, who would have helped him with that side to get our people — we will use these services. But I hate the PR on these things.
At some point the exchange became stalled — due to various circumstances, which can be a long debate. It was decided for the inclusion in the group of Medvedchuk. There was one really good exchange, we gave 220 people, but it took more than 150 people their. It was just before new year 2015 Then Medvedchuk really helped us.
— Any movement or political party — it's a large number of people. If the organization's activities beyond its Charter, it is documented, and then after the court decision on the withdrawal of the organization from registration. If the activity continues, then turns on the next stage — their actions are already considered through the prism of the criminal procedure code.
As for the Ukrainian choice. As in many other socio-political associations, there are people whose activities can and should be considered through the prism of the criminal and criminal procedure codes. If someone is trying to call for forceful change of government, change of borders or falls under the article "treason" — we look forward to the activities of such people to stop.
Believe me, the SBU is working on many problems. Behind the scenes we follow the activities of structures that can harm the security interests of the state. At the stage when we see that the organization goes beyond legislation — we document, qualify and register a criminal proceeding. 25 APR such proceedings against the Ukrainian choice was the us open — check on separatism.
Sometimes it is difficult to prove the effectiveness of our work. Take Krasnov. We set 100% Russian agent. But we came up with the flares: how is it that you patriots are oppressed. We were forced publicly to provide evidence of his criminal activities.
— 15 November 2013, the year I was tired to be "in possession" (the employee does not occupy any posts, does not receive a salary, but formally remains the employee of SBU, — an edition), wrote a report on the dismissal. I was crushed, so I left. I said, well, fire me, I'm not going to recover in court, and so on — fire. But without my report, because I did not break anything. By the time I had three medals, a medal for courage and bravery — every one of them I can tell what I got them. But when the situation in the country has gone too far — I wrote a report. Beat the students. Began the hot phase of the Maidan.
Even my mother, who at the time was 78 years, came to Kiev to the Maidan. These are not empty words. I was on the Maidan, talked with the guys from the Right sector. Since the 1990s, years spoke with Nicholas Karpuk and Sasha Bilym.Already on the Maidan, met with Yarosh. With the Afghan hundred.
— Not quite correct for me to disclose the details of our conversation. My report on the dismissal of the SBU for three months. When the situation during the protests on the Maidan stalled, one of the leaders of the Service departments invited me and said, the situation comes to a deadlock, we need experts who can give advice. I asked: what do you want from me? I was told that communication is needed with the other side. Everyone knew it was going to be blood. I replied that I was willing to help prevent bloodshed.
I had the experience of the Orange revolution of 2004, which affected me directly. Are we then not allowed to shed blood.It is certainly not my achievement, but the entire Service. But I had the experience and for the sake of the country, I responded, said that the construct is ready to work. With me nobody conducted interviews. I haven't seen Yakimenko (now — fugitive ex-Chairman of SBU — ed.) — he didn't even know what I look like. I am responsible for my words.
A week before the shootings on the Maidan, I was issued an officer for special assignments. The situation on Maidan is reminiscent of the clinch. I gave your suggestions on how to establish a dialogue and to prevent the blood.
Ready to answer to anyone: neither to the plan of the boomerang (ATO crackdown of Maidan — ed.) nor to any other things, I had nothing. All my suggestions were focused on how to get out of it is already far not the political crisis. But common sense, unfortunately, did not win.
— No. I spoke with the guys from the Right sector, self-Defense and Afghans. On the other hand I communicated with operational units SBU, communicated with alpha. I know all of them — on both sides. And because it was easy to find a common language with those and with others.
Head of alpha Alexander Ustimenko, whom you know personally, then led the first combat control. I told him: Sasha, let not bloodshed. No one then will not protect you — neither you nor the Opera. There is millions of Ukrainian patriots.Prospects of no power. Sasha answered: Yes, I understand. And I think this also played a role.When the unavoidable happened when the boys were killed from the Heavenly hundred, and then, when Russian-Ukrainian war in the Donbas, and later, when I was appointed first Deputy Chairman of security Service of Ukraine — chief of ATC it was easy for me to build relationships with our guys from alpha.
I was offered the position of first Deputy Chairman of the Service — chief of "K". I refused, said you do not want that my place is not here. Then Peter said, "Then you have another option. We need now the Director of war." I've been told, Yes.The decree was signed in the half twelfth night. I called one of the leaders of the logistics Services, announced that I was appointed head of the Antiterrorist center. Asked to open the warehouse, and to give out machine guns, ammunition and so on.At two o'clock we took three Kalashnikov assault rifles, 7.62 caliber ammunition, took the old bronicas Services that did not hold, one of the employees gave her the camouflage, we took beads and at 10:00 am was in Slavyansk. So I got on the war.
— Very difficult question. The question of why they died, why go to the bullets is one part of the question. They understood that I could die. But they didn't want to. They didn't plan it. Why someone gave the order to shoot? I'll tell you about those who died. We meet with their loved ones. We are the first in the Academy of the SBU put up a monument to the heroes of the Heavenly hundred, to form the Ukrainian patriotism in our students. There we meet with the families of the victims. I asked the relatives told the cadets and students about their dead sons and fathers — what they were.
None of them managed to say to the relatives the most important words for children, mothers, parents, wives. "I love you", "Daddy, I'm sorry for what I did wrong". They never came back. Gave the most precious — life.
Why it happened — why they killed people? You have to be inhuman to give such an order.
I think in this situation, a key role was played by the Russian advisers. Now it is very hard to prove. But then the political leaders have been in constant consultation with the Kremlin and the Russian leadership. I'm sure given some assurance, they say, we will not abandon you. And so it happened: all the blame in the shootings of people on the Maidan, now in Russia. We do not give. Is this not proof of a role of Moscow, not proof that Russia had coordinated all of these things?
Criticize me when I talk about the Russian track. But for whom a secret that Russia by the FSB came to Ukraine and felt in the walls of the SBU? After the revolution, we arrested the Deputy head of the Kiev counterintelligence who worked in the interests of Moscow? Counterintelligence! He had to look for agents of a country with which we have not declared war.And he worked in the interests of Russia.
— During my tenure, much as I was hurt, but we have already opened 39 criminal proceedings against our officers. For the year. If to speak about cleansing the SBU, here is a lot. I assembled the leaders and said, "Hungry among you?Someone at home nothing to eat? Someone is not satisfied with the salary? Go in torn socks? Or else what?". Silent. I again asked angrier: "the Hunger is there, you ask!? No. So. The rules are simple. I guarantee that no one will tell you to earn money and to carry them to me or one of my deputies.If such facts learn — take the bastard by the ear and lead me." Now the rules of the game require the maximum mobilization.
At that time, when I assumed responsibility as the head of the SBU, I just came back from the war. Those who went through the war, and those who weren't — mentality differ very much. Because when you see how your eyes off someone else's life... I will never forget the moment I first saw death. When I first had to take fragments of the body and put in a black bag. In such situations, it is neither generals nor colonels. When broken grad — he does not choose the titles. We vomit when collecting parts. it is Impossible to forget.And when I returned to Kiev, resisted to the last, didn't want to go here, but I am a soldier. I said to myself, and then the team: "the Rules are simple. We either defend our country or we lose it forever."
Russian hybrid warfare extends far beyond the area of the ATO. She is in Kiev, is in Odessa, is in Kharkiv. We have prevented the dismemberment of the country into the Russian bandit enclaves following the example of the DNI/LC. We stopped the scenario of the so-called Kharkiv, Kherson, Mykolaiv, Bessarabia and so on "people's republics". In Odessa the situation was simply catastrophic. We were on the verge of a second front, when the Russians were ready from Transnistria to enter the Odesa region under the guise of "militia". Nobody talks about it.
— Meet with the President almost every day, including weekends. The main theme, as a rule, the situation in the ATO zone. The President is interested in our work on localization of terrorist groups, as well as disclosure of resonant crimes.Interested in as commander in chief.
There are days when it causes me to meetings two, three times a day, when it comes to some events in the state, coordination with other law enforcement agencies. Often these meetings are held in the presence of the national security Council Secretary, defense Minister, chief of the General staff, sometimes — attorney General, when it comes to some strategic issues related to the presence of Russian capital in Ukraine when necessary consolidated work of a fiscal, security and other services.
— No, the President requested me never addressed. He can Express outrage some situation — as a man. His assessment may not coincide with mine or the attorney General. But he never breaks through the knee. He understands the limits of their authority as President, his brilliant education, he is a lawyer, including.
We have a certain level of relationship, which was defined by him in the beginning. We agreed that I always tell the truth — I'm completely satisfied. If I lose the ability to speak the truth, or the President will stop to hear — no problem, I'll turn around and leave. This is one of the key points.
He sometimes has emotions like every normal person. On the contrary, it is good when people show them. But he never humiliates and does not offend people. This is important.
— Yes, support. But I am against lustration, which takes place on formal grounds. For example, a Deputy head of the regional body in Ternopil came under lustration. He is in the eyes of Yanukovych's never seen, done nothing wrong. And, on formal grounds, fired. This is just an example. And while there are people who had no relationship to managerial posts, but wreak havoc — racked of fate, activists set fire to a car. Their lustration does not apply.
Unfortunately, the current lustration knocked out of SBU a lot of good shots, which I am ashamed to look you in the eyes.They come and say: "wisdom may come at least one person from the Maidan, and say that I did something wrong or hurt during the Revolution of dignity."
We fought... of Course, spent a lot of offshore operations. Fortunately, my time in the ATC was only injured. We didn't send people on missions without intelligence and deep study of the issue.
Tactical mistakes, of course. Do not believe those who say that doing something for the first time, without mistakes.Sometimes go beyond the law. For example, does not accommodate the existence of the joint staff of the Central Department of the SBU in the area of ATO. The headquarters supervises the work of 800 employees, who on a rotating basis perform tasks in the war zone. And that's not counting the regional administrations of Donetsk and Luhansk. These 800 people doing most of the work for the maintenance of the Ukrainian authorities in the territories controlled by Ukraine.We help local authorities to raise all the Ukrainian in these areas to keep order and fight against saboteurs, collect intelligence.
— My position is very simple. When I bring together representatives of volunteer battalions, ex-centurions of the Maidan, Afghans, Automaidan and many others who were in the East, I explain that I'm against people with guns in the rear. You can't drive with a gun in the trunk in the peaceful cities of Ukraine. I am against the creation of private armies. If someone's creating an army, very few people create them to protect. Mostly for attacks and raids, perform tasks for a fee.
If we want to be democratic country is unacceptable. I believe that by this time we were able in this matter to restore order. Of course, until there is further. In the hands of people is still a lot of weapons. We are working on it.
— While Russia continues an undeclared war — the list is exhausted. We continue to take captured Russian soldiers, paratroopers, officers. Only through the Ukrainian counterintelligence were about 100 Russian citizens who were related to events in the area ATO.
I would like to add one issue. 19 of the 25 detainees in the past year on the territory of Ukraine of representatives of the terrorist organization Islamic state arrived in Ukraine from Russia. Some of them come from Tajikistan, some of the other countries. But they all came with the territory of the Russian Federation. And I never heard about great successes in the struggle with Islamic fundamentalism or international terrorism in Russia is free for terrorists territory.
Now we have a Turkish citizen involved in al-Qaeda. He was wanted by Interpol. Arrested while trying to issue a passport.He wanted to legalize we have to travel outside of Ukraine. Is an active member of al-Qaeda. As soon as we pass all the procedures extraderm it in Turkey.
— Arrived. Let's talk later.
— Frankly speaking, I think so too. And it is easy to explain. First and most importantly, we allowed observers to 600 detainees — controlled by Moscow group DNI/LC only to four.
The UN representative confirmed that they are not just not allowed in the secret prisons of the Russians in the LC.Representatives of the UN, in principle, not allowed to captured terrorists LNR territory. In Lugansk not allowed.
I said: wait, then what matters to us? We were not allowed in the district unit of the SBU. Is a sensitive organ. We collected legal consultation with experts on international law. There are Ukrainian legislation. There is the admission on objects, where information circulates restricted access. I mean, not even every officer of the SBU can get into a particular room.
That is the question. There are modern ways of recording information. For me, as intelligence officer, just go to some room to appreciate, as I then securitise in this space and to access everything I needed. When we are with friendly visits from colleagues in other countries, we will not allowed, except in the room. We don't have in every room.
Yes. We are required to open the door to us, let us here open attic, open basement, open here. I gave full access to the places where we keep people. Absolutely full access.
Of course, to be Frank. There are our branches, where our operatives. Impossible to get a terrorist in anti-terrorist operation and to bring in the Kiev prison — he is taken to the nearest branch, interview, and then pass on. The whole procedure: a heap of papers, the suspicion, the sanction of the court, jail.
But here comes a group of foreigners — 14 people: let us everywhere. Well, as it is everywhere? We tell them that, guys, yeah, you got the mandate for all places where can hold people, not to go into each room in which you want.
So Yes, I think that the Russian trace in the unwinding of the media in this story obviously. Nobody blows that UN staff are in principle not allowed in Lugansk. Why not go to Seoul? From there I personally took people away. And there's still our hostage, for example, in the basement Arteaga. SBU famous places holding more than 50 of our citizens from 113.Please go take a look. Do not go.
We do not refuse. We are open. But it is impossible to a foreigner to just go to a sensitive site of the SBU. It is prohibited by law. Must be complied with the procedure. They didn't understand and demanded to skip this moment and everywhere. We will give you access wherever you want to go — but on sensitive sites unless accompanied by and in compliance with the requirements of information security.
— Basic on the surface — strengthening of Russian security services caused by the efficient operation of the SBU. We oppose — they are increasing the pressure. Russia has a powerful potential, including information campaigns against Ukraine.
In this sense, there is one very interesting aspect — the highlight, I would say. After an exchange of Afanasyev and Soloshenko my adviser Yury Tandit said, why the Russian political leadership is interested in Ukrainian citizens, not Russian citizens detained in Ukraine? I analyzed his answer on the Internet and Jure said: I'd say otherwise. Why did they take them? I'm going to say — maybe it's just my analysis...
— They were, to put it mildly, surprised.
Curator of the project "Bessarabia" — Inal Ardzinba, first Deputy Advisor to the President of the Russian Federation Vladislav Surkov. Ardzinba announced a suspicion that he is wanted. Lisinska that we gave, was in direct contact with Ardzinba. The second Didenko, who jumped from alpha out of the window and broke her leg. Why did he run? Behind him stood Ardzinba.
Now on. According to our information, in connection with the failure of the project of Bessarabia, the so-called group of the FSB in the Moscow elite blamed the group Surkov - Ardzinba. The plan failed. Hybrid war in the South-West of Ukraine with exit to Europe began. View Analytics for the past year — the spring and summer. What happened in Moldova? Her slumber. I had a conversation about this with the secret services of Moldova. The Russians failed. And it became the subject of serious litigation in Moscow.
But why the need to have two contact persons who together with Surkov, and Ardzinba was in charge of this operation?My humble suggestion: these people need to come here and tell what information they gave the investigation as to organize our work with them on what they pierced, where failed. All that is necessary to perform flaws for the future. And, of course, to one group of influence in Moscow to the top struck another. Now the showdown between them is our operational information.And these people, whom we gave to Moscow in exchange for our patriots, will help these groups to fight among themselves.
If we talk further, we wanted not only Ardzinba, but other people, which we won't talk about.
In this sense, experience is not necessary. However, you have to understand, when we made a sweep of the Odessa region from agents and separatists, no one knew about the preparation of this operation. It was the first in the history of the SBU, such an operation of this magnitude. (Talking about the events of spring 2015 — ed.)
We knew that in the evening the next day will begin the process that will be difficult to stop. We had to act quickly. We collected 150 Alpaca from different areas. Sent them in small groups to destinations points civil with beads and different roads. In Odessa this time worked as a small group of our Trustees. Alfach got GPS-coordinates of the points of destination. Checked our local field investigators helped to hide the car until morning.
Before that, the city went found experts in communication and took the city in the hood. We completely covered the city.
I left Kiev at about five in the evening. No one knew about this operation, except for a narrow circle of people. Even the head of the SBU. Alpha was beneath me. In the car with me was Ustimenko (now the head alpha).
We're going to Odessa. I call the head of the Odessa management of Laborers. He came to me in the waiting room, caught me — he said I was not feeling well and called. Calls and says, "Vasily, you won't be in today?". I said, "No, you know, left a little early." "And tomorrow you will be on Board?". Say, "Sergei, on Board see you, Yes." And he, by the way, the next day — his birthday. We told him such a gift in the area of organized (laughs).
By the way, an operation we call "Maundy Thursday" because it was the eve of Easter.
When we arrived, each group alpha received an envelope with the task. Each group is a four-man alpha and one or two operatives of the SBU.
When each group got an envelope and familiarized with the task, when we have collected all the signals about the readiness of groups, I gave the command to begin the operation. Conventionally the order of the numbers. Well, let it be 555. And went somewhere with his feet, where a simple door somewhere overhead charge, somewhere- titanium instrument. The guys each came in its place.
Most suspects we took in one gym — nine people, among them two killers.
— More than 30. But it's only for one day. Next were the second and third waves, which has allowed to expand a circle of the detained separatists and Russian agents.
Of course, when we went to thirty-something addresses the noise rose across Odessa. I drove up to regional management. Good day, I say. Guys, let, you call. The post gaining Batrakova. Laborers calling to me: "Vasily, are you in Odessa!?". I said, "Sergei, Yes. Tomorrow the Board. You have a birthday. Celebrate (laughs). I trust him, but thought it not proper to devote.
— No. Three stages of Stripping it. Many of those we took, showed us the exit to the next people. We hit them, lucky, till the morning got them all laying explosives, weapons and so forth, went down the addresses, then the courts, sanctions.Come on.
The first blow we have inflicted on the combat link, which planned a series of explosions.
— Some sitting, some we changed. Sliwinska and Didenko are the ones who directly received the command from Moscow. Directly. Because they were valuable for the Russians.
We hit the power block, was closed, the investigation began practicing. I went to ATO. Two weeks later we had a Board in the area of ATO. We gathered all the chiefs, was the head of the Service. At six the next morning we prepared the second stage of Stripping in Odessa.
I tell how it really was. Serve on the Board report. And our armored group, meanwhile, has quietly gone on Odessa. We were preparing even more serious, because the second may gotovilis provocation.
I come to Batrakova. Say: "Sergey, let's go, we on the way". He asked: "you Kidding?". No, I say. A night March. Until six in the morning marched 700 kilometers and we are in Odessa. Straight from the March: again our specialists cover our connection city, again the envelopes with the jobs we go again.
It was tougher. Hummers, Spartana, DShK, KPVT. On the fatty locations.
We moved in one place, and the vibrations went on. If we someone doubted, was confirmed. This is a classic operational activities.
Then we took Lisinskog. Then took Didenko. Then we took a large package of documents on the funding of the scheme, any real evidence.
— Always leave a light bulb that flies knew where to go. It's the subtle things. It is clear that many went underground. It's funny — after this surgery from Odessa went even pickpockets, they say, until these assholes out of town will not go away — we are there to steal won't. Seriously. This is from the "thieves" information, because we work with everyone and at different levels of received information.
The mood in Odessa. Was wondering when in front of the regional library we searched. Are our in full armor. They fit girls: "Guys, where are you from?". "With the war". They are — cakes, tea.
Took Didenko. Took him with a broken leg to the hospital. And I report with each point: "went", "is", "weapons", "fulfilled", "he gave masonry", "court", "sanction". All of this information sistematizarea and processed. Someone worked — up in the reserve, went to help another group.
And then this thing jumped out of the window. Went to the place to investigate. Come, look — the Spartan, and the guys cut the porridge out of the pan. Come, I ask: where the mess did that? Tell: the doctor came, the old Jew said, "Guys, you sho doing here, you brought this separatist? But Shaw was there?". "Jumped out a window, when caught". He says: "Guys, I'm cereal, I will, I will feed until the end of time, just don't leave the city!".
We went upstairs Early. I decided to shake hands with this doctor. I go to the reception. The woman sits. Asks: who are you? We're talking military. Here, I want to talk to. And it was lunch. She says: "he's not here". We Realize that we want him just to shake his hand, say thank you, humanly met fighters". "Yes? Now wait a second". Phoned said that there came to say thank you. Go into the office. Sitting chief physician, Deputy, dinner. Thanked them. They said, "Guys, sit with us, eat". We were there 20 minutes spent. Got a lot of pleasure from communicating with them.What I am: Odessa is a real pearl of Ukraine.
When we finished the second stage of Stripping, I decided to make a small demonstration of presence. We built our cars in the column. Guys, slow speed, no flashing lights, drove through the main streets to the monument of Duke and so on.The goal is to show that the power is there.
People all the way off, taking pictures with the fighters and the background of technology, fit, smiling. There's a lot of patriots. And in General, people want to feel protected. Yes, there are "wool". These people I would like to say: do not think that you need Russian. You use in the first stage and then throw away — as it was in the Crimea, as is the case in Donetsk and Lugansk.
— Author of text — wise man, we must pay tribute. He clearly outlined the prospects of failure of the project of Bessarabia: "the SBU should not get respite." "It is important that support was received in the next hours or days". "In the balance — the fate of the South-West of Ukraine, but in geopolitical terms, Moldova and Transnistria". "Our defeat in the Odessa region will change the overall balance of forces in the region."
But they lost. In Odessa today we have a situation in 2015 year. Then it was all ready, laid out, arranged — you just have to light the fuse.
— Of course. But to act seriously in — need base and supply. Without this, nothing happens. So the current peace Odessa for them — it's absolute defeat. Now under their flags has almost no snaps. But those who are willing to do it, we observed them carefully.
At the same time, we live in a democratic state. Legal. So sometimes we are somewhat limited. We are forced to constrain their actions. But, on the contrary, we have to take steps in the interests of national security — is consistent with the letter of the law or not.
For example, I know that you profess any views...
— As I said, in 2015 the fall of Moscow radically changed strategy, moved his subversive activity from East Ukraine to the South and to the center.
Russia is doing everything to destabilize the situation in Ukraine from the inside, destroy everything functioning state mechanisms show that the authorities in Ukraine that in Ukraine a civil war that the government is illegitimate, that the Ukrainians need to sit down with the leaders of the Pro-Russian terrorists.
Policy of the Russian Federation in the future will be to try to introduce the Russian aggression a kind of "intra-regional conflict." They will try to remove sanctions — the margin of safety they are not infinite, next year they will have to make huge payments on foreign loans. Elections to the state Duma of the Russian Federation, one way or another, will contribute to destabilization of the Russian society in which there is a lot of problems. I really like the mood of Russian students. They are progressive. They don't watch TV, but I read the Internet.The government will try to suppress these sentiments and take the youth under control.
In Ukraine they will try to divide our political elite. I, as head of the SBU, all representatives of political parties, movements I say: we need unity. We need a unified front. The only way we can respond to calls from Moscow.
— Very good question. About cash PR. I am responsible for my words: I didn't know that the clap got the data. I have a good relationship with Victor, we were with him in the war. It seems to me that he had no reason to believe that I, as a leader, betrayed him or let down, left alone with a problem in life or at work. If he is there — let them tell me in the eyes.
At the same time, in this situation he had to act according to the law. As the Statute requires. At the time when he received the data — and he is an active member of the SBU — he was supposed to report to me the report, attaching these documents. These documents were required to give a legal assessment, to take the procedural decision. Perhaps to open the proceedings. If you pass in the NABS or the GPU — set by the way. This is important.
I spoke with him. I said Victor, your place in the Service, I see you in the Service. What position do you want? The President invited him to the second position after me. Let me be Frank: the President went to image loss, suggesting Trepak real thing. But Victor refused. I told him: "you understand that You need our team that I'm counting on you? When you play in their favor. This situation with the attorney you PR yourself, and we remain here, continue to do your job. And you're gone. Why? We all keep a blow".
There is a nuance of corporate highlights. Perhaps many of our entry into the Holy of holies with searches angry. But, sorry, really, no one will not leaked. The President said: I will protect Trepakov, because he was doing his job. There are all capabilities. Victor didn't want to.
— All want to hear what they are. So let's. There are no saints: they are either in heaven or canonised. And there just are people — politicians and not politicians. The issue of corruption can be decomposed into many components. What is a daddy or not the daddy is a philosophical question. You can blame anyone. But to us in this sense, the least of the issues, because we clean ourselves from the inside.
Here, they say, what's wrong with the courts. I stopped everything to hang on bad courts. We really need the judicial reform, thank God that she launched. But, let's say, once there is a quality documented case, the judge accepts bribes, the unjust decision. But there is another situation when someone speaks and says: Yes we are, Yes here, Yes all the evidence at a glance. The judge opens — and there is a bubble. But do blame the court. Of course, all have questions.But everyone should be responsible for the quality of their work.
Yeah, looks like a great time and played the map. But I look you in the eye and answer for his words: Trepak any of us is not coordinated. I didn't know that he's going to do.
I hate, furthermore, it hints on the observation of the SBU. He said that he saw a tail of the SBU, but he said it wasn't NABOO. I rezanulo. I, as an officer of the SBU, as a person with a lot of enemies and promised to destroy me and my family to the seventh generation, always walking around with weapons, sleep weapons. I have to do this. And if I saw a watch, there are 150 options for how to proceed.The first and most simple is to act like an officer: he led the tail in a narrow street, a sharp turn, blocked the passage, went out, pulled the gun and asked: whose will you, guys?
The second option. If he does not consider me your enemy, you could call me. You think I would have said no? I would have asked to extend the tail in a certain place where we have these people Packed private the private, nebesnoe sbushnoy. In this situation, I would not care where someone skullcap. I did not give instructions to follow the current General security Service!
— A complex question. I do not answer it due to the fact that, as in the old movie: "You see a gopher? No. And he is."This is a similar situation. And who told you that this work is not conducted? This is the first.
Recently there was a assassination attempt on a Russian General, who was in the occupied territories in the Donbas.Unknown Pro-Ukrainian partisans who are there, something blew up when he went into the house to his mistress.Unfortunately, he survived. It's just a touch. I Gypsy-mail said.
Second. Some of our enemies punished by God. For example, the one who pulled the trigger MANPADS that downed helicopter Mi-8 in June fourteenth on the Karachun, which killed four of our officers, two commandos and two pilots — he is no longer alive. I just became aware that this man, who lived on the uncontrolled territory, we are somewhere missing. I don't know what happened to him. I just know that he was gone. And you have no idea how many stories I know. All the same Gypsy mail is working well. (smiles)
— We destroy our enemies. And we do it quite effectively. But this is not trumpet.
Look at Zakharchenko. Sitting under guard. Never climbs. But it's the subtle things. They are not to tell the media. This war of wits, intelligence, economy, and ideology.
No problem. My spouse been working in the business. It's true. With my husband now earns less than he earned before.If someone says that I'm somewhere something some tender lobbied somewhere somehow assist — let them tell me in the eye.
I spent three years sitting in the decree, did not receive wages. To tell the truth or what you like? If you tell the truth, if you three years do not pay wages — you would be trying to survive somehow? It's the wife's money ashamed to ask. But you seem to be in Service, even though you have no influence, all the doors are closed to you, you don't get paid.
When we eight years ago sold the Toyota Prado, my son went to the tax and honestly paid all the taxes. Can dial it now to turn on the speakerphone and he'll confirm everything. He came to the tax and said the father sold the car, I want to pay tax. The woman who was sitting there said, "Son, you do not mistake? Do you know how much you have to pay?". "Yes, here's the money". Understand me?
I did not hide never. Never registered his car on someone else. All that is in my family I showed. My wife was the car one, another and a third, in which the firm operates. It both worked, and works in the same business.
— Cool question. Where, where, as in vodka is definitely not. I can guess where this is about the beverage business. But I look you in the eye and quietly say: I don't even know what it looks like what I ascribe to.
My wife is engaged in wholesale selling of food products. Moreover, it is important, more than 10 years the wife didn't renew the business on some of the nominees for Director. And she supposedly would remain "behind the scenes" in case someone wants to check business. She continues to manage everything personally, and puts the signature. It's about saying something? Our family has not issued any offshore.
— I agree. But let's assess the situation in the country as a whole. Now is the time.
I told you that I love to shoot. If at the time I thought how do I buy good optics, night scope for hunting, with the beginning of the war I that I had brought on the war guys. Why? Because when it all began, rifle what once was, and optics — no.
I stopped hunting. Probably never want to. Much in life has changed. When someone shoots at you you at you shoot someone... Shoot for fun in a live goal — I don't see anything for myself. I'll shoot in the dash is necessary. I bought a machine that shoots Frisbees. I love sniper weapons. It captures me.
— It would be the height of arrogance to say we know and prevent all crimes. At the same time, I have already said that among the resonant things we have prevented this year a lot of terrorist attacks that could cause mass death of people.
I am familiar with the details of the case of Grabowski. I do not have permission to comments in this case. But I'll tell you frankly that the policy there is less than something else. It's true.
We literally daily prevent high-profile crimes. It's just become commonplace. I all life was engaged in problems related to combating terrorism and illicit trafficking in weapons. This is what I think I know something about. Sometimes it is easier to identify signs of organised networks of terrorists than terrorists alone. Crazy loner, if we oversleep, can make a lot of trouble, unfortunately.
— This is a complex topic. Ukraine depends on many issues from some companies. Unfortunately, we at the time we did not develop alternative forms of energy, in particular hydropower, although opportunities for this are many. In the end, we found ourselves in rigid dependence on the mines and coal.
Unfortunately, Yes, some of the representatives of the Ukrainian political elite often visit Moscow, to solve their issues.
— It would be incorrect to answer this question. We are at war with Russia. If I or someone from my entourage went to Russia or in Russian-annexed Crimea — for the purpose of tourism or with any other — I hardly believe that someone from there would go back. You know what I mean?
If there's no question counterintelligence — all that relates to our competence, that I think must exist a such a thing as political responsibility.
Today, some businessmen are afraid of the Ukrainian government that will lead to the street thousands of people.
— Yes, the face is very thin. I can enhance your questions ten times. But there are some of the questions, simple answers which simply does not exist. Economic rules of the game should work not security. Quite another question — direct funding of terrorists.If we see that the company operates in the occupied by terrorists territories, was, say, in Kyiv and Kramatorsk, but working there, not just driving Ukrainian money somewhere in Gorlovka for the purchase of some screws, and financed a battalion of the East we have the information we receive and do our best to make such a venture ceased operations. We have enough sources of information. I do not exclude that we know not all. Do not rule out that some of these companies pays a bribe to terrorists — this theme we have constantly monitored.
But I will say again. We have an unusual situation. And in many ways it still has not been resolved.
We first raised this issue and began to fight. When we realized that we don't have enough, when we in the Golden blocked about 160 cars that started out as a mouse to run up, and we rushed to ask the military and the police to help us catch them: please help us to stop it! Then I initiated a meeting at the Sarmat, which invited border guards, fiscal, military, Prosecutor's office, National guard. And I said, create a group, that was not so, that the SBU is in control, I want shared responsibility. Then it played a role. Large trucks stopped coming.Then, of course, began to break up the party.
The profitability of Ukrainian goods, which fall on occupied territory — 400%. But to call it smuggling is also impossible.After all, this is Ukrainian territory, albeit captured. Smuggling is when the truck comes back, and leaves to Russia through terrorists and controlled by the Moscow border.
It is necessary to preserve the balance of interests. Why did we create logistics centers? To our citizen could issue a pass to come and buy all he needs for a normal price.
— We are in their ranks of corrupt officials beat and planting. We arrested a Colonel who was discharged left the pass.We caught ours, which helped the illegal movement of cigarettes. We do not hide our heads in the sand.
Went to my first Deputy Malikov in the area of ATO. Mandatory program — illicit flow of goods, what to do with the beads, what to do with the crossings. The Russians put a challenge to his people: "Corrumperet Ukrainians, this will allow us cheaper to maintain these areas. Ukrainian goods cheaper and better. And if you "bought" someone on the boundary line, you will be able to talk to him on other subjects. So we see this as a major threat and fight against it.
It wasn't that simple. After all, according to the law given permission to provozku to the village, which is in a gray area.What's next with a wagon going on — the question, Yes. But technically, that's legal.
Give us time. We have certain ideas and plans. The important thing is that we now have revealed these mechanisms and schemes. We understand how we bypass. And we'll stop it. I don't want to shift the responsibility, especially because our guys caught on the fact that they covered up the smuggling. But we will find a holistic approach which will stop it.
— Many of those who come here, do not fully understand that in Ukraine there is a war. Some of them, of course, once I went to the ATO, made selfi on the background of the tank, then to tell everyone that they were there, and the transfer of five armor — did the obligatory photo shoot.
Come with different issues. But I'm not a politician. And not doing anything, in addition to their main work.
— I have the honor to say that all of my deputies, who are appointed are people whom I respect, that I suggested, and the President supported me.
So I can easily keep the defense from those who ask, hiding behind the alleged interests of the state, for assistance in some things. I then send these people over to the cartridge from air guns (on the shelf at the entrance to the office) or show here is the bracelet I gave you.
— I can't win anything to wear to the office. I'm not hungry. I don't need anything. I eat twice a day, morning to eat no strength, because I sleep five hours, come here for Vladimir and drink strong coffee. Then, if possible, lunch. In the evening something eat, and can even in the night the house salad is something to eat.
But if someone tells you that he doesn't offer — don't believe. However, as cynical as it may sound, but most often with hints of turn patriots, who in the TV is very fond of Ukraine, and in fact scum.
I am proud to now have assembled a team of like-minded people. Vitaly Malikov and Alexander Ustimenko you know.New from Vadim and Sergey Poyarkov, Basuk. Poyarkova I know to work in Kiev, he worked as the head of the Department of protection of the economy. He is military to the bone. Straight and solid. A man for whom the word of honor — not an empty phrase. He is often not comfortable for subordinates. But he is demanding — especially to yourself. He will not deviate from the path. This is an important feature.Poyarkov and Basuk those guys who will always say in my eyes all that I think, if they disagree with me. We often argue. Areas of responsibility: Bazuk in charge of the economy, a consequence, Poyarkov — regional offices.
— People who have been through the ATO. We have to pass the point of no return. Go — it will be easier to reach the top. We get to it. On top will be the Ukrainian flag will be a normal state. We have to do. Otherwise fall to the bottom from the mountain, with all the positive that had to be done. And then lose the state. The state will not be — the state will tear.The security service of Ukraine can not afford to we fell. Have to go to the goal. I believe in the progressive part of the SBU — the will of the people is much stronger than the amorphous rest.
I analyze that even when someone at work comes along who really lights up the Service, and who just comes here to do a number. There are those who came in the morning, then went about their business, and in the evening there was "a guide" to show what he is a slogger.
I bet on the potential of the healthy part of the SBU. The stronger it is. I look guys in the eye and understand that they will not bury our heads in the sand. Service occupies a worthy place in the Ukrainian society. We go forward, explaining the remaining 70% — you are either with us or you do not belong here.
Eventually the Service will become leaner and more efficient — albeit at the cost of the 70%, which, unfortunately, give so little. Included parallel structures, which we will transfer some of its powers — NABOO, NACP, SAP.
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