The second room of the electoral list of the "Popular front" in uncompromising interview Tsenzor.net told about why it is easier on the front than in the rear, and why am ashamed of the current Ukrainian journalism. And also how to clean the machine skirt Lyudmila Yanukovych, and why female assault is much more effective for men.

...Talking with Tatiana Chornovol, see that man now as taut string. Too many things happened in her life over the last year clashes with the repressive machine of Yanukovych's criminal cases, severe beating at Boryspil, then torment raw, helpless anti-Corruption Bureau, war, the death of her husband under the Transfer, the service as a private in the battalion "Azov", running in the Verkhovna Rada.

In some odd way Tanya holds. As always - cuts for the truth, and in this interview quite paradoxical thoughts, which will cause outrage former colleagues on the journalistic profession. But, having gone through all that she has, Chornovol has earned the right not only about all of this talk and to be listened to.
Now she tries to think about the future. He says he knows how to be useful for Ukraine in the role of the MP. Confident that the final transition from journalism to politics will help her to realize themselves.
Sometimes in the eyes of Tanya tear up, and she talks about how he affected her life, the death of her husband. We decided not to publish this part of the conversation: too much personal suffering. But started our conversation about why she was under the walls Happy last Tuesday, when the progress against the police went to checkers and stones.
- What you tried to do in this crowd?
"I tried to stop destructive actions at the Verkhovna Rada.
- Most of the people sitting at this time "under the dome", called the actions of the crowd outside a "provocation"and its constituent people - provocateurs. What do you think?
- A very serious problem is that there are many ideological people who believe in what they do. Although I'm sure that there are provocateurs, people in the salary of the FSB.
- Why is the FSB?
Because it is extremely beneficial to Putin. And it is a miracle that today's action is the first hot spot for a long period. Because, believe me, in the Kremlin constantly writing plans, how to shake Kiev. The fact that the Donbass Putin is absolutely not needed. He just dreams, as if to return it back to Ukraine. Because this is, again, the zone of instability. This area of factories and mines, which never gave the profits to the state; coal, which always cost more than if it had to buy abroad. But these mines have left a huge amount of subsidies and benefits. Again the population with huge unemployment, pensions and other social guarantees. Three million people! Putin just wants to return the site back to Ukraine.
- Then why did he continues to hold this territory?
Because now you can say that he lost. And now he pulls power in those places, to swing Kiev. It is extremely necessary.

"SOME PEOPLE COME TO THE FRONT PR - AND IMMEDIATELY GO"
- And are you trying to explain to people, swarovsk checkers in a police cordon around the Parliament in support of the recognition of OUN and UPA...
- ...There was no theme UPA. By attacking people was not the subject of the UPA. What they wanted to achieve, beating policemen? What does UPA?!
- Apparently, they expected that under such pressure, the deputies will vote "for".
I think this technology. Actually I really want to vote for this bill. But the pressure is if at the Verkhovna Rada received 100 thousand people. And stones and pieces - this is a hot spot, this destabilization.
You see, in our country there's a war on. And there are some symbols of the state: the Parliament, the presidential Administration, the Cabinet of Ministers. And if they fall, it means that the state is not here. And if we go to war with Putin, then won Putin.
"Did you see who hit you?
- No. It was a serious attack on the police cordons, and I tried to somehow resist. Was knocked to the ground one policeman, I rushed him to cover - and at this point just received.
- What you said the attackers?
I tried to explain to them: against whom are you fighting? It's the same guys who were standing in the ATO! Many of them came to the police with the Maidan! Now, I was previously a teacher, went to the police in the Maidan. My husband went to the police after the Maidan. I, again, went to the police! (laughs. - E.K.). And many of guarding the Parliament policemen stood on the Maidan. Moreover, all were in the ATU. And to those who came and shouted "We are the men of ATO, we are advocates of Ukraine, and you cops nasty!", I want to say: so you were in ATO!
- Are you sure that attacked the Parliament were in the ATU?
- Some of them just was. I even saw some familiar faces.
Again, I've been on the front - and know that we have some teams who come to the front for PR and then you leave. Consider yourself cool violent thugs...
"You don't Korchinsky mean?
Maybe Korchinsky, too.
"You saw the crowd at the Verkhovna Rada of people about whom we know: they are a provocation?
I don't know. I can't point a finger at people who just deal with provocation. Have never done it, that doesn't interest me. But such trends are present. It is one thing to be constantly on the front, to the day, and quite another just to go there. For example, I am also more barnstormer (smiles. - E.K.). Although, honestly, I would like to be there constantly. But somehow does not work. I had already made this decision - just 3 days before her husband's death. But the death of her husband all my plans violated.
- Tanya, I'll ask you a painful and sensitive issue: what is the area of ATU though you have two children?
"Exactly so. I've had more arguments, and now my relatives I scream: "you've Got kids! What gives you the right?!".
Actually, I would now be comfortably hide in a corner. And I want to hide in some hole. Because in those brief periods that I was at the front, I finally relaxed. On the one hand, you don't feel the tragedy. Everyone there is there...now that he is alive, speaks to you - and after 5 minutes he, too, may be covered with a flag.
Secondly, there all is much easier. Here you see what is happening in the state of destructive processes, feel responsible, try to do something myself. And there as a member of the battalion "Azov" lie on the grass and wait for the order. There is an order - you went and did.
It really is so simple, so easy!...
Famous medical volunteer Hottabych had explained this phenomenon: in the rear you will face a lot of questions that need to be solved: work, family plan. Necessary several times a day to make a choice. You are responsible. And there, firstly, all your activities are regulated by the orders. And secondly, you know: everything you do is right. And paradoxically, it's easier for people to live.

- Yes, it is. Even those people who were wounded and were standing on the edge of life and death, I know that they are trying to jump off of these hospital beds and to go to the ATO.

"TYMOSHENKO ME IT WOULD BE EASIER. BUT IN THE "POPULAR FRONT," I'LL BE BETTER FOR UKRAINE"
- Let's talk about your campaign to the Verkhovna Rada. Remember how in the days of Maidan you passionately advocated for the release of Yulia Tymoshenko. And now many people thought that you would go through the list of "Batkivshchyna ". But you are on the list of "Popular front". Why?
"You know, I always tried to hang some stamps. "This man Tymoshenko"...was even associated with this story. During the Maidan, the question was raised about including me in the headquarters, which took the total solution. And I was even hacked: "Tanya engaged Tymoshenko" (laughs. - E.K.).
Who was hacked?
As far as I know, "UDAR" and "Svoboda"...now, you see, I am a person who tries to be helpful Ukraine. And this is the motivation, in line with which I make decisions.
I actually chose. And this choice is one to go into politics - was a very difficult period. This is, in fact, occurred during the funeral of my husband. And at first I had a lot of emotions. It was a lot of hysteria, I didn't wanted. But in some morning I woke up and realized that I don't even think about. You cannot even think about the present time. You can try to look into the future to predict and see who in the future I can best be realized and to be as useful as possible. And who is the most useful concept for Ukraine?
And I decided in favor of the "Popular front". Can you explain why not Tymoshenko.
"Come on, it's interesting.
I sometimes even think that Tymoshenko would be easier. But Tymoshenko is in opposition. I would also be easier. But the fact that I was standing on the Maidan is not in order now to say that I am white and fluffy, and you are all freaks, and criticize the opposition. Actually have to take responsibility. We need to knock the negative. And if you're able to take responsibility, then you can somehow be useful to your state.
And I realized that now I can not afford to be in opposition. My husband died for Ukraine not to his wife that Ukraine lost.
I have analyzed and understood that the elections in 2012, I was with the same people. And now, selecting Tymoshenko, I would have gone to other people. And I was with these people: with Turchynov, Yatseniuk, Pashinsky, ProbIem. And even if you take my parliamentary elections of 2012, to my district came only Parubiy, and from the center supported only Turchynov and Pashinsky. Local Batkivschyna me mochila. And now those same people continue to work there on Tymoshenko.
You must be a tribute to those people who now go to the command "Popular front", was held on Maidan. That is, the Maidan is not just to come and stand on the square. The Maidan is the food, the tents, the organization, this is a difficult choice to send people, in fact, to death. And in difficult moments to make decisions that change the history of the state. Because I just know that in the history of Ukraine during the last period were very much influenced by one episode in the night of 18 to 19 February.
- It's the night of the shooting Maidan. And what episode do you mean?
When Turchynov and Pashinskiy stopped the crowd, trying to tear captured "berkutova".
Yes, dramatic was the situation.
"Berkutova" literally tore to pieces, dragged to the stage. And then Turchynov and Pashinskiy began to shout into a megaphone: "People! Consider what you are doing. You are heroes, you are not executioners! But heroes don't do that!".
Actually at this point it was not only about the lives of these two men. We were talking generally about the concept of development. That then, when independence was won and Putin attacked the Ukraine, we have nothing - neither the military nor the police. A complete power vacuum! And the first riot, which began to operate, it was a police riot. And I'm just sure: they began to listen to orders Turchynov also because knew about that moment, when his intervention saved the lives of people. He saved their lives from a position of honor and human dignity. He hinted that we may not be the executioners. They have appreciated it.
- Tanya, any human being, especially of such of the public as you continue to be persistent critics and detractors. They usually sit in a warm room and fill posts in Facebook. And you know, what are the most popular epithets they use with regard to your person?
-?
- At best - "uncontrolled"in the worst - "crazy". I think you mean your fierce reaction to the actions and decisions that you think is dishonest. In other words, you can't prevaricate, faced with some "muddy" doin ' the team with which you work.
And I have a question: people who offered you to go to the polls in their team, you know that they, in some way, take in a list of "bomb"that could explode, if you find yourself surrounded by such a thing?
"They understand.
"You are such a bomb?
- Yes. I basically always in the minority. But I was actually very easy to predict. Because my main motivation: this useful Ukraine or not? And the fact that they take me, is, I believe, also a very positive thing (laughs. - E.K.). In principle, this is the team I see the desire to work for the benefit of Ukraine.
"BEFORE BEING A JOURNALIST, I BELIEVED THAT ALL POLITICIANS CORRUPT FREAKS. BUT NOW I UNDERSTAND: WE, JOURNALISTS, ARE THE SAME"
- For example, "popular front" was held in the Verkhovna Rada. What more is there Tetyana Chornovol: social worker, journalist or...
- ...clear. I'm not a journalist.
- So you decided that the journalistic part of your life in the past?
- Actually it was in the past a very long time. First, I just three years ago, said that she is not a journalist. Because the journalist is over the process. And I was in the process.
And secondly (thinks. - E.K.)...it's hard to say it, especially now. Secondly, we have no journalism.
Why?
I remember after the orange revolution in Ukraine in General appeared journalism, freedom of speech. Before then it was not there. And I remember how gradually it all came to naught. In recent years, by the way, I wasn't on TV. It's not just because I was not there? I was active in many processes, but was not on TV at all. Last year I was not printed. And, what is most interesting, being in a political environment, I hear these conversations, when politicians talk among themselves, that, they say, the paid so much, this is so much. And I, you know, just feel ashamed.
- A minute. "So many paid" - to whom?
- Journalists.
And they are not afraid when you to say this? Or so they believe you to be his, allowing myself such revelations?
"No, they don't say, there, paid for some information. They say that paid to get on the air. That somewhere there was their position. That is, they do not mean some kind of "gloom" - and therefore speak openly about it. And I feel very ashamed of what I understand: they think I took the money. And you know, there is obtained a double-edged sword.

- As before, it turns out you didn't know?
- No. I lived in his world.
- So you lived in a world of their investigations, and once you had all this thinking?
- (With merry surprise. - E.K.) I've never been paid. I never took money. I understood that when you shoot your article, it means that something is wrong. But somehow it didn't react. Thought that it is better to do another investigation. But I didn't understand how it totally. I understand that we have a sick society as a whole. Politics, journalism, the voters who sells his vote. But now I learned a little bit more. And I was actually scary (laughs. - E.K.). And, what is especially frustrating is seriously worse than it was in recent years. And the worst thing: now, now, shouting that after Maidan nothing has changed? Now, journalism is not changed. And how can something be changed in politics, if we are not honest journalism?
And understand, I'm not defending politicians. I just disgusting. I so ugly it all was that I want to hide in a corner. And then I understand that you have no rights.
"Then I'll ask you the same question that was asked Sergei Leshchenko exit Block Poroshenko. I said to him: "With all the understanding of your motivation to do something in politics, you Mustafa will be two cog in a huge machine, in which there are 448 such as screws. And before that, were the first two guys on a fairly large village Ukrainian political journalism. So do you think that your articles you did for the country more than it is now becoming deputies?".
Now the question I want to divert you.
- Answer: no, not any more. I do not interfere and did not try to break through the wall of journalistic publications. I have my blog in the "Ukrainian truth", I am in this blog was published. But over the last two years, I almost did not publish. I went out on blogs, absolutely free, I even none did not pay for it.
And now I have the opportunity and the right to print on the same blog. And, honestly, I was totally fake, fake position in government. By and large, I was a consultant. Everyone thought that I was responsible for the corruption in this country, but the government I was no more than a consultant. And in order to break through the wall with no tools and powers, I tried to destroy any corruption schemes.
But actually, journalistic publication is a small mechanism. Actually there is the state mechanism, and it works much more serious. That is, I tried to use the state mechanism, helping journalistic publications. And that somewhere has helped me to get things off the ground. But still, the state mechanism is much more powerful.
"WOMEN OF POWER RESOURCE TO BE MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN MAN"
"You're not implying that your decision to lead the anti-Corruption Bureau was a mistake?
I very often so first think, and then - I don't think. Why? Interior comfort was not. Everyone thinks that you are responsible and can do, and you really consultant. You calling a bunch of people, you refuse. And it turns out that they need to take place only to be listened to. And you can't listen, you have a team of just three people. And you realize that, by and large, not may affect their business.
On the other hand, I got very good experience of understanding of how the state mechanism. It's a great experience, I used about these things knew nothing. Now - you know, understand and to the Verkhovna Rada are pretty savvy. Compared with what was to my destination is heaven and earth.

- Tanya, over the years I've seen you on the helmets of berkutova and centuries-schnick, on the roof of the car tracking SBU, the scene in the emergency room of the hospital in Borispol, today - trying to prevent people in balaclavas and draughts...in One word, you always climbed in such a hell, where many men do not climb.
And I have a question. Perhaps the new Parliament will be much better than the previous one. But scum it would be too much...
- Absolutely! Still and camouflaged. Because scum in the current Parliament, we know. And new we still have to learn (laughs. - E.K.)

- Here and say, in situations where words do not help, you reserve the right to, say, methods of physical violence?
- Yes. My goal: I want to break corruption scheme. And I think this Holy purpose. And to achieve the goals need to use all you have resources. And the woman has the power resource is much more powerful than men.
- What is more powerful? Due to the fact that the victim will not be able to answer?
"No, that's not why. Because it's a shame when you beat a woman. So Yes, I use it. And I will use it. Because, for example, if I wanted to break the scheme Yatsenko (Anton Yatsenko is a recognized expert on various specific financial schemes. - E.K.), I broke only because came to this last argument.
- Watch, by the way, for his election campaign?
- Yatsenko? By the way, I was going to see him on the district. And even I will be there to help the candidate Lyashko. Because of the Popular front there candidate no (laughs)!

"Here's the policy: have to choose the lesser of two evils...
By the way, the lesser of two evils is very correct, I have always said it. Even when you could hear: "We're not going to choose between Yanukovych and Tymoshenko, because you cannot choose evil, and no matter more or less".
Actually, if you compare the lesser and greater evil, the difference is that the lesser evil looks as good. Therefore, it is always important to choose the lesser evil. But how else?
"I AM NOW PSYCHOLOGICALLY DIFFICULT TO BE IN KIEV IN POLITICS"
From September you began working as an Advisor to the Minister of internal Affairs. That was part of your duties?
- I was appointed just after the funeral, my husband and I even took some time to simply move away from the tragedy.
- Work has helped to do this?
- I needed to recover. And I went to the front at the moment when Putin tried to take Mariupol. I believed that there is now very hot, the principal point.
For some time I was there, in fact, ordinary. Then I returned and began to enter into the duties of the Advisor. How to enter? I again went to the front and began to drive around our battalions, because in order to control the situation, it is necessary to understand the conditions in which people are fighting there.
- So you were the Advisor ATO?
- Yes, on battalions. And, by the way, I really want to continue this topic. Unfortunately, I now went to the polls, but a trip to the battalions is what I want to do, and what I now think is very necessary. That's what I'm abstracts away from all the hassles that are around me now...(pauses. - E.K.). No matter...
- Tell, please, what he wanted to say.
- Psychologically difficult now to stay in Kiev to stay in politics. It's not even that now everything is bad, actually, compared to what it was in the days of Yanukovych, everything's just fine. But psychologically difficult. For a long time I was on the Maidan, and then quite a long time was in the ATO. That is, in those places where a person is willing to sacrifice. And it all Mercantile, issues its own ambition - fade into the background. And you get used to one type of people. To the people who are bright, who really are heroes. You used to be among the heroes. And when you come back into politics, you come to Kiev in power, you realize that in politics there are other quality. It is an objective reality. That is, the same person on the front with one hand, and politics on the other - they are different people.
And it is often painful to watch when the person who is on the Maidan behaved decently, and then...
- ...and then I just realize that his position often define their own interests: greed, rating. And when one thinks about the rating, it gets worse. And at the front the rating doesn't matter.
So psychologically it's hard for me, but really need to be strong. I think I will be strong (smiles. - E.K.). But I need a little time to adapt.
"But for many people you are the embodiment of a strong man.
You know, when run on the front is actually a weakness.
Generally in the area of the ATO so many positive things...even Though there is death, is a very difficult psychological conditions, because people often do not even agree on the shots of the gun in the course are mine, "Grad"...But the people who are there, they are very nice to talk to. For example, we have two battalion - "Kharkiv" and "Sloboda". They are led by two brothers from Kharkiv "Berkut". Moreover, it is the only representatives of Kharkiv "Berkut", which went against the Maidan. That is, they had not complied with the order, said: "We will not fight against their own people".
Now they headed battalions, and the younger brother is fighting his wife. And there the two brothers such (hands shows the huge size. - E.K.) and wife - this powerful woman (laughs. - E.K.). And you know, so it was nice just to sit with them and talk!
These meetings very much, and the conversation turns out to be very positive. 're here, in Kyiv, and understand that everything is bad. Go there and see what kind of victory we have already achieved. For example, the battalion "Azov" is located in the country of the Yanukovych under Ortofon. And Yanukovych there is almost nothing like, there are children's drawings in support of the army, boxes everywhere from volunteers with socks, chocolate, coffee. But if you want to clean your machine and you need the cloth, you can use the things Lucy said. And you go to the heap, which fell somewhere in the corner, pull the cloth and see the skirt. And you understand that this skirt Lucy said. And it is nice...
Eugene Kuzmenko 

Source: http://censor.net.ua/